Curious Chat #04 with Tam Hussein
An award-winning investigative journalist and writer on using fiction as a vehicle for truth, toeing the line between curiosity and obsession, and the inherent emptiness of celebrity.
Welcome to Curious Chat!
Each month(ish) I’ll be introducing you to a new person who regularly harnesses their curiosity to do big, creative things. Then I’ll pass the baton, and ask my guest to respond to some questions about their own relationship with curiosity, and we can all hoover up the bits of gold dust their words, and work, leave behind. Curiosity adds color, so here we go…
Substack was my first introduction to the mind-bogglingly meticulous writing of British investigative journalist Tam Hussein. I was astonished by the sheer amount of research and knowledge that he packed into every article. But after a quick glance at his bio, I realized that Substack wasn’t actually my first introduction to Tam’s work: I’d also previously read his articles in New Lines magazine, watched some ITV documentaries he’d consulted on, and read pieces he’d published in other top publications. Clearly, recalling the names of journalists across publications is not my strength.
In my defense though, it’s rare to find a journalist who’s as astoundingly prolific as Tam, and without ever sacrificing the integrity of his work. It’s no wonder that CNN’s Clarissa Ward has said, “Tam is one of the most knowledgeable and talented writers on this topic.” High praise from a journalist who is often considered to be at the top of her field.
The topic that Clarissa refers to as Tam’s specialty is jihadist networks and foreign fighters. He’s covered a spectrum of other topics in his roles as the associate editor for New Lines magazine, and as a specialist producer for ITV News, but his area of expertise is, without a doubt, unpicking the complexities of jihadism.
“I have always been interested in fighting, conflict, martial traditions and the fighting men who participate in them. But those men interest me partly because they are tied up to my own history: I grew up in the 90s [when] these ideas were coursing through the British Muslim diaspora youth.”
Tam recalls that, as a Muslim boy attending university in Britain in the 90s and early 2000s, he was regularly confronted with a choice: either believe the reading material about the caliphate that was being passed around, or don’t. As a student studying History, he instinctively had a more questioning mindset compared to his friends, and was able to quickly parse fact from fiction. This skill meant that he was able to be deeply curious about the subject, but without absorbing its messaging. Whether he knew it at the time or not, he and his friends had reached a crossroads, and they would soon begin walking very different paths.
These diverging paths crystallized after he lost two friends who had travelled to Afghanistan based on the allure of Afghan jihad that was being spread at the time. An allure that, Tam believes, is based on little more than a flattening of history; romanticizing and mythologizing jihads over the decades, and leaving out the uncomfortable truths.
When he saw the same 90s soundbites and narratives making the rounds at the beginning of the Syrian War around 2011, he knew that the conversation needed an injection of nuance. The rose-tinted narratives that were circulating lacked dimension, and he, as a writer, was in a position to challenge that.
“The proliferation of false narratives and fake news is not exclusive to the 21st century. In jihadist circles it has been going on for decades… The more complexity we [journalists] can introduce, the less we allow for these [mythological] narratives to form. That, in my view, is the key.”
Tam adds nuance and complexity to the conversation by collecting testimonies and accounts directly from jihadis and foreign fighters. He goes to places that most are unwilling to go, and speaks to people that most would dismiss outright. He does this with the intention of better informing the public’s understanding of jihadism, and to unravel the false ideas that have been woven into the fabric of Muslim culture for decades.
“Some of these [mythologized] ideas formed a tradition which served as the basis of why we had the phenomena of Muslim young men going off to fight in Syria in such large numbers — and more specifically why many of them turned to the caliphate of ISIS. So for me it’s about building up a genealogy, an honest history, to show those links — however uncomfortable.”
His tireless quest for compiling this honest history has not only made for exceptional, award-winning journalism, however. It’s also taught Tam some important life lessons:
“The world is bigger than you. Things aren’t always black-and-white. The reasons people do things aren’t always as clear. Absolute evil, absolute good…these things don’t really exist. As human beings, we are contradictions and we are motivated by many, many different reasons. That’s the lesson I take from it [my work], and I try not to judge.”
With years of first-hand research under his belt, and an encyclopedic knowledge of his subject, Tam ended up with more experiences and conversations than could realistically fit into articles. So he decided to switch mediums in order to document what he’d learned in Syria. He considered nonfiction, or even a screenplay, but he quickly found his hands tied by the tricky anti-terror laws in the UK, and ruled out both options. Instead, he says,
“I decided to put what I believe is very real into a fictional story, to illustrate the truths of some of these issues. I used a vehicle of fiction to illustrate these truths.”
Not only would writing fiction give him the freedom he needed to write truthfully, but it would also allow for broader impact, reaching readers who may otherwise eschew his articles. It’s not always the topic that’s the barrier; sometimes it’s how the topic is delivered, and the medium it’s presented in.
Given Tam’s history as a successful and highly-respected journalist and writer, it’s unsurprising that his novel has been met with high praise:
“A superbly clever, engrossing London Muslim-noir novel,” said Ethan Chorin, author of Benghazi!
“Rare to see such an engaging piece of fiction that deals with our world, reads like a good thriller and yet is deeply reflective and worth dwelling on,” said Tarek Megerisi, Senior fellow at the European Council of Foreign Relations.
Personally, I found the book engaging, and he solidly balanced the difficult task of creating something that’s both informative and highly entertaining to read. I’m a firm believer in using fiction as a way to broaden the conversation of a complex topic that’s regularly in the news cycle, and Tam has done an exceptional job of this.
Tam generously put up an extract from his book, and you can find a link to that below. I strongly recommend checking it out because he also provides a little more background on the origins of how the book came about.
There is so much to learn from Tam, and it’s clear form his writing that he’s a passionately curious person, so I was really pleased to read his responses to Curious Chat, and I think you’ll enjoy them too.
Now, over to Tam…
Do you consider yourself a curious person?
Yes, definitely.
How does curiosity play a role in the work that you do?
I consider myself a very curious person — it's one of those things that makes me half decent in my job. There are times when I know that it's going to hurt me, but I can't help it. It's always: well, I need to find out by turning a page.
My reasoning runs thus: if it doesn't kill me, I'll be wiser for it. I know that experience is what shapes a man or woman's quest to knowing himself and the world around him and beyond. You cannot go anywhere if you, at least, do not have that spark they call curiosity.
In fact, is it not curiosity that has led man to ask the most fundamental questions about his existence? Namely: Where am I from? Where do I live? Where am I going? Have we not created great edifices of civilisation just to satisfy those fundamental questions born of our curiosity?
This is why when I meet young people and they ask me if they should go to far-off places of conflict or danger, I don't stop them. I was like that too; and I grew from it. The only thing I advise is merely to take precautions and do their homework.
I met a young British man in Egypt once making a journey to the shrine of a great Saint called Abdel Qadir Jilani in Baghdad, during the Iraq invasion. This man was carrying a plastic bag with all his belongings and that was it! I asked him, isn't that a bit too little to take with you? He said: I don't worry where I will sleep and what I will eat; that has been written for me before I was born.
He made it across to the shrine of the Saint but, of course, he was also arrested and interned by the Kurds, kept in a detention camp, interrogated by the Brits, and then released and returned back safely to the UK. What an experience the man had! How many countries did he see, how many people did he meet, what did he learn about himself from that madcap adventure?
It’s very clear from the sheer depth of your writing that you’re naturally drawn to the topics you cover regularly, like jihadist networks. How do you balance the fine line between being curious, and being obsessional? Or do you find curiosity and obsession to be quite similar experiences?
It still gives me problems in life. Whilst I am curious, it only gets obsessional when an idea or question seizes me; then I am distracted. This is usually when I am trying to resolve an inner riddle or question, and it makes me a nightmare to live with sometimes. I am regularly accused of being autistic (I am not). Sometimes, I have to get shaken out of it. My inner life takes over, then I need someone to say: Wake up. Stay with us, now. This is important.
As I get older, I am learning techniques to switch off from such phases.
In general, does curiosity begin on a micro or a macro level for you?
For me it's usually one thing that I might fixate on, and then it becomes bigger and bigger until it becomes almost all-encompassing. I love when that happens.
Do you consider curiosity an essential building block in your personal well-being?
Yes. For me, if I don't have that, I think my soul would die. I always pity the man who has not explored his life and is content with never going beyond his own world.
What are you currently most curious about, and how do you explore this curiosity?
At the moment, I am looking at revolutions and the people who participated in them.
When you dismiss something as "uninteresting", do you then take a minute to reflect on why you're not curious about it?
Yes. The question is this: how does it add to human experience? So for instance, I find that celebrity is uninteresting because I find celebrity [in itself] empty. However, if that celebrity is a master at what he/she does, then I would be interested in how he/she views the world. So I would be interested in Musicians and the way they perceive the world.
Do you experience curiosity as mainly intrinsically motivated, or extrinsically motivated?
When I am alone.
Have you experienced a time when you lost touch with your own curiosity, and had to work to get it back?
No. I always have questions that I am looking at.
What do you wish more people were curious about?
The human nature is a whole universe within. We hardly experience or explore those aspects these days — the way many of our predecessors did, and who saw it as fundamental to their being. We don't.
What does living curiously look like for your personally?
Curiosity is to read about an extraordinary man or woman and go and meet him to get a glimpse into the soul of that person; then, walk away transformed.
Do you have a "guilty curiosity"?
Boxing. It takes up way too much space in my head.
A huge thank you to Tam Hussein for being part of Curious Chat! I really recommend jumping over to Tam’s Substack to read an excerpt from his thoroughly engaging and impactful novel, The Darkness Inside.
If you enjoyed reading about Tam’s relationship with curiosity, hit the heart button below, and leave a comment if anything in particular piqued your curiosity.
Some quick links where you can find Tam Hussein:
Order and learn more about The Darkness Inside here
Read Tam’s Substack here
Read Tam’s articles in New Lines Magazine
Follow Tam on Instagram
Follow Tam on Twitter
If you’re enjoying Curious Chat, I’d love it if you’d join the mailing list, or share it with a few friends who might also enjoy a bit of curiosity in their inbox!
These Curious Chats always pique my curiosity, as I am apparently deficient in that quality/trait compared to others. But what struck me was when I read Tam's reflection upon meeting a British man in Egypt and his response when asked about needing only his plastic bag of belongings, and the man replied: " I don't worry where I will sleep and what I will eat; that has been written for me before I was born." I have previously felt likewise; many things are "predetermined" prior to being born. Yet not all would agree with that concept. When reading someone's works that relate to my own, it reminds me how many others have an entirely different perspective.
Excellent! I've enjoyed the depth and honesty of Tam's work for some time so it's great to see further recognition for a writer of such integrity. Thanks for such a great lunch-break treat Lara!